What else would cause lights with mighty fires except the destruction of Utumno? That is to say, Melkor met them somewhere in the northwest of Endor, but then retreated eastward to Utumno after getting effed up. Going by the official Silmarillion, “in the north there were lights as of mighty fires” to me sounds like the Siege of Utumno, which happened north of Cuivienen. Then the Valar passed over Middle-earth, and they set a guard over Cuiviénen and thereafter the Quendi knew nothing of the great Battle of the Powers, save that the Earth shook and groaned beneath them, and the waters were moved, and in the north there were lights as of mighty fires.”Ĭan we really 100% trust the Ambarkanta maps? Are they not inaccurate with respect to the later lore? But the first victory of the hosts of the West was swift, and the servants of Melkor fled before them to Utumno. “Melkor met the onset of the Valar in the North-west of Middle-earth, and all that region was much broken. What about the lines from the Valaquenta: Can you provide the textual basis that Utumno was supposed to be in the middle of the Iron Mountains? The first map has its own set of inaccuracies as well, but is at least closer to the intended scale of Beleriand compared to the rest of Middle-earth. Note that according to the scale that Tolkien himself gave in his maps, the second map is horrendously out of scale and makes Beleriand far too large than it's supposed to be. Compare it with Karen Wynn Fonstad's map of Arda during the Second Age for comparison. Note that the scale is most accurately defined by another map made by Tolkien but of Lindon during the Third Age, which included the islands of Tol Fuin and Tol Himring (remnants of Dorthonion and the Hill of Himring, respectively) this map is included in The Treason of Isengard. And this is Karen Wynn Fonstad's map of Arda during the First Age which she based on Tolkien's own map. For reference, this is Tolkien's own map of Arda set right after the Siege of Utumno, which is included in the Ambarkanta in The Shaping of Middle-earth. There are other Tolkien-themed subreddits out there! Say hello to our friends in the following places: We're looking at starting a wiki for these common ones. Try searching before posting a new thread: odds are we've already covered some of the "classic" questions ("Who is Tom Bombadil?", "What happened to the Blue Wizards?", "Why couldn't the Eagles just take the Ring?" etc). Most bots are unwelcome, and content should not be simply copy-pasted from old posts or elsewhere, unless it is a quote with credit given. Please make use of r/TolkienBooks and r/TolkienArt for these. Posts/comments centring entirely on promotion will be removed. You can share your content, but in a discussion-based format. Links are allowed, so long as they contribute to the discussion. No posts that are simply links or title-only. (Some more obscure topics we will allow.) There are other spaces on Reddit to discuss the movies, games, fanfiction, AI-generated content, etc. This sub is intended primarily for serious posts, although humour in discussion is still welcome.ĭon’t discuss topics that stray too far away from having the centre of attention on Tolkien and his works. Stick to the topic instead of commenting on others. No insults, and no aggressive or passive-aggressive comments. For the full descriptions of the rules, follow this link.Īlways keep in mind that we are all human beings, so treat others how you would like to be treated. Multi-reddit of ALL Tolkien Themed Subreddits!īelow are our general rules.Wondering what books there are to read? See /u/ebneter's great postįull list of All Past Reading Discussions and Other Posts of Note Please see our frequently asked questions. Welcome to r/tolkienfans! This subreddit is a space for the Tolkien nerds of reddit to debate and discuss the whole Tolkien mythos.
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